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Sean Yates, Levi Leipheimer, Matt White.....if we're not careful they'll be no one left!
Radioshack are dropping him aswell
'Sean Yates, Levi Leipheimer, Matt White.....if we're not careful they'll be no one left!'
Cycling in Britain is strong at a grassroots-level, and there are plenty of riders and coaches who would like the opportunity to race clean. I heard recently that a local young rider has been given the opportunity to race for a big team - I sincerely hope that he is not faced with this kind of dilemma. There is no question of the destruction of the pro sport - and certainly not the amateur sport. In fact, the opposite is true. Following from Bradley Wiggins' Tour de France victory, there is now a pathway and a role model for other clean British riders to reach the pinnacle of the sport. 🙂
I have long since learned not to listen to tabloids. Most of what you are reading is sensationalist at best, and fabricated at worst. They draw their own conclusions to things and write what they want.
There is nothing for me to come to terms with. As I have said repeatedly, he is most probably a cheat along with everyone else who has either been caught or not caught. My problem is with the motives and tactics of the USADA, which is more corrupt than any team doping tactics.
It stinks, and I cannot understand why they have the unconditional support of the cycling world. It's turning into a kangaroo court.
'My problem is with the motives and tactics of the USADA, which is more corrupt than any team doping tactics.'
You are entitled to your opinion, Kris! Can you give me the evidence/sources for your opinion - I would be happy to read up about it. Please let me know your reference books and online articles, and let us decide if there is any basis to your opinion. (Hopefully, the basis is not just a rant from LAs lawyers.) Also, can you please explain why Nike and Trek have now tried to distance themselves from LA?
In a hard-hitting statement, Nike said: “Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner.”
Nope, because it is an opinion.
My opinion will change the day Lance Armstrong is convicted by the UCI, and not by a journalists story in a newspaper.
'As I have said repeatedly, he is most probably a cheat along with everyone else who has either been caught or not caught. '
You might like to read this book, Kris?
It talks about the tragic death of Marco Pantani. He was an extremely gifted, drugged rider and he probably never raced clean. The book explains in sordid detail how it was not a level playing field. The selection was made on talent+ training + drugs. The drugs affected people differently, but Pantani improved significantly on it. Riders with naturally high haematocrit levels, say 48%, did not gain much from EPO, but if your haematocrit level was naturally low, say 42, then the improvement could be huge, and therefore worth the risk and expense. (The legal UCI limit was 50).
As you have already read on my facebook page Kris, I have explained in great detail how clean riders were refused contracts, lost races and were bullied into leaving the sport. The biggest cases were those of Christophe Bassons and Filippo Simeoni. There are even youtube videos showing the bullying, with LA smiling and miming zipping his mouth i.e.'shuttup'.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/jul/24/tourdefrance2004.tourdefrance1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/L-A-Confidentiel-secrets-Lance-Armstrong/dp/2757800272/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_3
There will always be some people who think Lance Armstrong has done nothing wrong - maybe the same people who think Elvis is still alive, JFK was murdered by the CIA, the images of man on the moon are fake, and crop circles were made by space aliens.....oh well!
Well said Claire
another book worth a read is Willy Voet's "Breaking the chain" written after the Festina affair.
I dug out an old ProCycling from 2002 (don't normally keep mags that long, but thought a round table discussion on the aftermath of Festina would make interesting reading in the future!)
It includes Willy Voet the guy stopped at the French border with a car load of drugs; also Cristophe Bassons and Bruno Roussel ex festina manager and is an open forum question and answer with an audience.
A couple of quotes from the discussion:
Bruno Roussel - "I had the opportunity of listening to the scientists who gave evidence at Lille, and I recall something Willy said. When he started, doping was straightforward and fairly homespun. Then, it became extremely scientific, and was taken out of the hands of the soigneurs, and in the '90s, the arrival of specialists - biologists, physiologists, endocunologists - changed something. From the end of the '80s, with EPO, there was a period when riders using EPO without medical supervision, and there were deaths. Nothing was known about the medium and long term effects. Now thanks to medical supervision, there are few deaths in the short term, bet we are afraid for the medium and long term consequences.
The team medics are there to avoid accidents, not just for the benefit of the rider, but for the sponsors and the sports governing bodies, who don't want to deal with accidents here and now. In the medium and long term, scientists cannot say that people will not die at 40 or 80"
Willy Voet - "For 30 years I've doped people. But it's true: I spent 18 days in prison, and I had time to think. When the experts describe what could happen in the future, I feel afraid that I may have had a hand in people's deaths. I live in fear of that"
At a similar gathering at that time the question was asked if "anyone believed Lance Armstrong won his 3 TDFs without the use of any performance enhancing substances to raise their hand. And no one raised their hand"
And that was at least 10 years ago!
A lot of the evidence has been out there for years, we just need to recognise and acknowledge it.
Graham Obree was interviewed on telelvision the other day, saying that when he did the hour, people automatically asked him what he was on. When he said nothing, some stopped speaking to him because of his lack of commitment to the sport!
I personally have more faith in the pragmatic attitude of Vaughters and Millar in the Garmin Team rather than 'zero-tolerance' in Team Sky. I think that it is unrealistic, will actually continue to incubate the Omerta, and it did nothing to stop Michael Barry lying and gaining credibility because he was with a clean team.
I would prefer to see changes in the UCI along the principles of Garmin rather than Sky - acknowledge the mistakes of the past and move on, rather than pretend they never existed....
Dave Brailsford knows so much more than he is prepared to admit, and this is dangerously close to a 'head-in-the-sand' mentality. These signed statements from riders will mean nothing, if to confess to a doping past will lead to instant dismissal - where is the incentive in that?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article3573064.ece
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article3569404.ece
I'm with Kris on this one.
I don't doubt that he doped I just want to see the evidence tested in a law court. Last time I looked we lived in a democracy and this offered us the protection of being assumed innocent until our guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt. I understand the difficulty of getting a positive drugs test, but this is what is needed, something that would stand up in a court of law.
Yes, all the riders testimony is important (not sure much of it would stand legally due to conflicts of interest), but so is hard evidence, the smoking gun.
I am not saying that Lance is innocent, I believe quite the opposite, but I won't crucify a man based on postulation and heresay. USADA need to do a better job and provide the hard evidence that this case desperately needs.
The way this has been handled by the media has done no favours to anyone, everyone involved looks bad.
Also if people think sport is clean now they are living on another planet, whenever money is involved there are people who will cheat
@Craig wrote:
Also if people think sport is clean now they are living on another planet, whenever money is involved there are people who will cheat
Yes money, glory and honour are always motivators and human nature tends to look for a way round - for a bit of light relief how about this feature on creative cheating.
Oh dear! Carlos Barredo under investigation (not surprised) and Rabobank pull out of cycling at end of year!
'The backing of the men’s and women’s teams will end on December 31st of this year. Riders such as Robert Gesink, Lars Boom, Theo Bos, Steven Kruijswijk and Luis Leon Sanchez are all on this year’s men’s team, while the women’s squad includes world road race and Olympic champion Marianne Vos, amongst others. '
.....and Mark Renshaw ( Omega pharma Quickstep maybe? )
Rabobank have a murky past, and they are probably concerned that any new information might be coming out about them...As well as Leipheimer, there was Rassmussen and so on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20001685
"Dear Rabobank, you were part of the problem. How dare you walk away from your young clean guys who are part of the solution. Sickening." David Millar - Twitter @millarmind - 1:01 AM - 19 Oct 12
https://twitter.com/millarmind/statuses/259202667941875713
Craig, I think the lawsuits will be coming along very shortly. In particular, SCA will want its $7.5 million back for paying out on what it perceives to be 'fixed' races.
'In 2006, SCA agreed to pay Armstrong his $5 million bonus, as well as $2.5 million for interest and legal costs. The company said last week that it may try to recoup the money in the wake of the USADA report.'
Interesting comment, JoJ. I always thought Chris Boardman and Graeme Obree were clean on account of their obsession with training and bike technology. I am not so sure about Moser 'tho...
I have already ordered the Willy Voet book from the library, Dave - it is probably one of the few books I haven't read yet!
@Claire.O wrote:
I have already ordered the Willy Voet book from the library, Dave - it is probably one of the few books I haven't read yet!
I've started reading it again and even the first chapter will be an eyeopener for anyone who doubts the extent of drugs in cycling at that time - he talks of the first haemocrit tests carried out at Paris Nice in 1997 - they were "ready" and had their own means of checking levels and had also worked out how to beat the tests!!
