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I am guessing from the title that everyone can see what I am going to suggest. First I would like to say this is not as a result of anything that has happened and that it is purely as an outcome of canvassing opinion over the last couple of weeks. I know last year there was a lot of discussion on the topic of the two runs and whether the pace of the long run was an issue. Having had chance to reflect on this and as someone eloquently put it yesterday "You won’t change the long run, it’s always been like this". This is very true, the long run will always attract the stronger competitive rider and this being their temperament the group dynamics and pace will always reflect this, I would not wish to change this as it is this very mentality that drives them to great personal and club success. Similarly the short run attract the new riders and riders who have less time to dedicate to cycling, the group dynamic and pace will again reflect this and so it should. This leaves a group of riders that are more than capable of putting in some big miles, but wish to do this at a more relaxed pace (14-16mph average depending on terrain). This group have two choices either ride below their ability and do the short ride or ride above their ability and take on the long ride. So I am putting out there the idea of a third run, which would have the same start time and destination as the long run. There are a few advantages to doing this as I see it.
1. The group sizes are reduced, which on the road is easier to manage
2. The group pace more closely matches the group ability
3. With two groups going to the same destination if someone on the long run tires they can come back with the middle group.
4. We form a stepping stone up from the short run to the long run, helping to develop our club riders.
I am sure there are lots of other positives, but what I want to hear is are there any disadvantages, is this something that people really want. I am more than happy to be the conduit for this third group, but I don't want to tread on anyone’s toes or venture into an area the club does not wish to go, please let me have your feedback
Sounds good to me, I would be interested in a middle run 😀
The number of riders turning up aside, I'm really not sure there is a need for another group. It's always the case with the long run that the pace goes up from time to time or the group fractures going up climbs but we always wait for everyone & if it's the case that someone is struggling then the group will ride at their pace.
I know Woody you've been on the short and the long run, what benefit would you see in a third way?
I like the idea of longer miles at a slightly more subdued pace. For me it would just take a bit of pressure off while I'm building up my fitness. The long run can be quite relentless so at the moment I'm trying to ween myself onto the shorter "long runs" first to get used to the pace.
Craig
Being of the longer distance mentality, but currently not of the pace, I too have wondered about a long steady option. Perhaps not on a weekly basis but if there was a call for it why not?
i can see massive advantages for the new riders as they might be up to the long distance however not being able to keep up with the pace. also for those who want to be more leisurely riders but longer rides. also this could benefit the long run as they would get less shouts from the back of 'half a rev' and they would be able to go at a higher pace. however i can see the downsides. of there being the same number of riders but more widely spread out. this could mean less support if someone gets a puncture or if your like chris buckley then broken chain links. this could mean more people being stuck or having to take the risk of a broken chain if someone doesnt know how to fix it or have the parts as we all stick together. so there a few good points i think but also a few bad points the people to ask are at the end of the day the riders who would be interested like those form the short run and those who struggle on the long run. it may also be alright for those who have raced the day before to let there legs recover on a nice long but slower ride. so i guess get ady to send a questionaire i could put one together or something and get ady to send it to all the members?
Seems a good idea to me, it's not just appealing to new riders or those that have raced the day before - remember some of the older legs may appreciate a good distance if they knew they weren't going to grovel all day, especially in the hills
I think there there are two main points here to consider.
1. Whereas it may be feasible to run a third club run, fundamentally, there then would have to be three willing and capable run leaders. Not easy to fill this job every week.
2. In terms of pace, this is also down to the leader to judge and make sure that all those who participate, understand. The leader needs to effectively lead 'from the back', ensuring that the pace is not just a case of waiting for the slowest to catch up after each punishing interval, but keeping the pace consistent with the ability of the slowest in the group! Our club run principle is to get everyone to the cafe, and to take this principle further, to make sure that they're in a fit state to ride back!
Largely, as long as that principle is followed, the group should be happy. This is not to suggest that we all try to climb up every steep hill as slow as the slowest rider, that isn't practical, but we need to make sure that the riders get to the hill(!), and that when we re-group, that we don't just take off again, without giving those at the back, the chance to recover. Again, down to the leader. It's a position of responsibility! Where the leader is pushing too hard, a friendly word from another member of the group is usually enough to bring the tempo down to the right level. As a group, then we need to make sure that all members of the group are 'included'. Where there is a quiet member at the back, this is sometimes a sign of fatigue. We've all been there. Pace is too high, the last thing you want to do is talk!
Largely, we can accommodate our runs in two groups, unless our numbers swell to an unsafe group size. Then we may need to think about it again.
🙂
Out of interest, what's the average speed on a Wednesday & Sunday club run?
I've just joined the club and was thinking of popping down this Wednesday/Sunday as I'm off Uni and work.
@woody wrote:
I like the idea of longer miles at a slightly more subdued pace. For me it would just take a bit of pressure off while I'm building up my fitness. The long run can be quite relentless so at the moment I'm trying to ween myself onto the shorter "long runs" first to get used to the pace.
I see what you're saying Woody, it will just take someone to lead the third run.
Just a thought though, when i come back to riding and i'm about as unfit as an unfit thing (as i have many times!) i go on the long run and just make sure i sit in the group, on the wheel of a big rider so i get towed along as much as possible. That's the approach i'd recommend to anyone wanting to come along to the long run.
@John K wrote:
@woody wrote:
I like the idea of longer miles at a slightly more subdued pace. For me it would just take a bit of pressure off while I'm building up my fitness. The long run can be quite relentless so at the moment I'm trying to ween myself onto the shorter "long runs" first to get used to the pace.
I see what you're saying Woody, it will just take someone to lead the third run.
Just a thought though, when i come back to riding and i'm about as unfit as an unfit thing (as i have many times!) i go on the long run and just make sure i sit in the group, on the wheel of a big rider so i get towed along as much as possible. That's the approach i'd recommend to anyone wanting to come along to the long run.
..aah, so that's how you do it... and I thought it was just 'cos you had a nice bike... (!)
Fair point though, and encouragement to those who wish to try out the longer run. 🙂
I'm happy for anyone to sit on my wheel for the day!!!
As long as you can do 24mph for 3 hours 😈
That was a joke by the way. I can't go that quick for that long 😥
@Jules wrote:
I'm happy for anyone to sit on my wheel for the day!!!
As long as you can do 24mph for 3 hours 😈
That was a joke by the way. I can't go that quick for that long 😥
When you can, that's when you need to start TT-ing.... 😛
@AlexMolyneux91 wrote:
Out of interest, what's the average speed on a Wednesday & Sunday club run?
I've just joined the club and was thinking of popping down this Wednesday/Sunday as I'm off Uni and work.
I don't think you got a reply to this. Average speed varies. On Sunday, on the short run, with stops included (wating at the top of hills and at junctions etc), I recorded a fairly slow 11.2 mph over the 51 miles.
In terms of riding time, this equated to around 14.2 mph average for the distance. This is fairly typical I think for the short runs, although the average speed will vary, dependent upon the group. If there are only those who can keep a fast pace int he group, then the average speed will inevitably be higher. If there are slower members of the group, equally, the average will drop.
Hope that helps.
@AdyJapp wrote:
@AlexMolyneux91 wrote:
Out of interest, what's the average speed on a Wednesday & Sunday club run?
I've just joined the club and was thinking of popping down this Wednesday/Sunday as I'm off Uni and work.
I don't think you got a reply to this. Average speed varies. On Sunday, on the short run, with stops included (wating at the top of hills and at junctions etc), I recorded a fairly slow 11.2 mph over the 51 miles.
In terms of riding time, this equated to around 14.2 mph average for the distance. This is fairly typical I think for the short runs, although the average speed will vary, dependent upon the group. If there are only those who can keep a fast pace int he group, then the average speed will inevitably be higher. If there are slower members of the group, equally, the average will drop.
Hope that helps.
For comparison: Last Sunday on the long run my average speed for the whole day was 18 mph.
