Andy WoodParticipant4 September 2012 at 09:28Post count: 1066
AGM is next Tuesday 11th September at 7.30pm at Hartford British Legion.
Please come down to support and have your say on the club.CraigParticipant4 September 2012 at 12:13Post count: 279
Sadly I can’t attend as I will be in Germany with work.
However, I would have liked to attend and air my thoughts.
I still believe strongly that there is a need for a third run, we have the short run which is great for newcomers, those that want to be back a little earlier and those looking for an easier pace, we have the long run which tends to be the home for the stronger riders and the pace reflects this, but what the club lacks is a run that caters for people who want to put a few miles in, but at a more relaxed pace, probably similar to the short run pace. The lack of this has meant for the past few months I have been cycling with Steve Ashworth and doing just this. I believe that there are others who would also be interested in this type or ride.
As things stand at the moment neither group satisfies my needs, the short run is too short and the long run tends to be too fast. I would not want to mess with either of these runs as they fulfill their needs amicably.
Perhaps this could be discussed and if there is a club level interest I would be happy to organise somethingAndyHParticipant4 September 2012 at 19:56Post count: 98
I’m absolutely with you on this Craig. Not able to attend on the 11th myself as I have a colleague arriving from Germany that night but I’d certainly like to see this aired as a topic for conversation.JimWParticipant5 September 2012 at 14:06Post count: 328
I agree with the sentiment, but to coin the PM’s phrase ‘I refer the hon gentleman to the answer I gave earlier’
the long run is still a club run,
a club run is a social ride, if this run attracts stronger rider – then they have to ride slower..
this run shouldnot be run off at 18mph [or + in some cases] and shouldn’t boast of several thousand metres of climbing every week.
if people want to do this then it is them who have to make their own arrangents.
I will soon be fit enough to want to go on the long run,, but not fast enough to do it at 18mph.. but this wont stop me attending [I’ll be a real pain in the ar*e to everybody else]
18mph [or +] is training and there are enough runs [even at this time of year] to cope with this on a Saturday.
so my view is that the club does not need a 3rd ride, what we all need to do is rain back the pace of the long run to that of the short run [14-15mph] the long run should aim to do between 70-100 miles [Hartford to Hartford]
Jim WilliamsCraigParticipant5 September 2012 at 15:07Post count: 279
Totally agree that the long run should be at short run pace, but as I was told when I dared to suggest this “the long run has always been like this, always will”
Einstein said the definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
I would like to think the long run would come back to being a social long ride as was intended, but experience suggests I would be flogging a dead horse.
I just can’t see how you can put a group of competitive individuals together and get anything other than a fast pace. I am not going to be a killjoy and stop people having fun, but that pace of riding is not for me.
I am quite happy doing what I am doing, just thought it would be nice to involve others who are not of the competitive naturejohnkParticipant5 September 2012 at 15:47Post count: 225
Hi Craig, how are you? Haven’t seen you for ages!
I can’t make the AGM however here is my two pennies worth…
Leave the long run alone, it’s happy doing what it’s doing.
If Craig or anyone else wants to organise a 3rd run why not let them? Only a trial will determine if there is a need for it and if so then great, it’s another string to the club’s bow.
If anyone were to tell me that on the long run i can only do 14-15 mph i would die of boredom and you would find that me and a large number of other riders would just go on a ‘training’ run. I’m pretty confident that this group will be made up of the same people that go out on the long run at present. If this were to happen we would perhaps then have a number of riders that wanted a ‘3rd way’ and we are back to Craig’s suggestion. Give it a go Craig if you like!CraigParticipant5 September 2012 at 15:59Post count: 279
Hi John, I’m doing really well hope the same is true for you.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. The long run works in its current format, as does the short run and as I was always told if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
I do feel however there are a few people who sit in the middle ground, who want some distance, but not the pace. These are the people I was looking to cycle with.
If it’s felt this is a bad idea, fair enough, just thought I would put the idea out there, nothing ventured, nothing gainednofearParticipant5 September 2012 at 18:37Post count: 604
Seems like quite a few people can’t make the AGM this year as I too am away on business Mon – Wed next week.
This is an age old debate in every cycling club and the problem is defining an acceptable pace. Bradley Wiggins would quite happily potter along all day at 25 MPH with is hands on the tops whilst eating a butty and discussing Coronation Street, but everybody else would be toast in no time at all. At the other end of the spectrum you get a first timer who just decided to join a club because they saw the Olympics on the telly and they are on the rivet at 15 MPH and completely stuffed at 30 miles. In between you have many different abilities and you also have people who have the ability to ride very fast but prefer to ride at a sociable pace so they can enjoy the scenery and the company.
I know my family don’t get out on club runs very often, but that is because we race most weekends and at this point in time we are enjoying doing that. However our club is successful because it caters for all aspects of cycling and enables everybody to pursue the particular branch or branches of the sport that they enjoy. Therefore I agree with Jim that a club run is a club run and it’s main purpose is to be a sociable bike ride. I can’t understand why there is a problem with riding at 15 MPH which is a sociable pace and enables you to travel pretty large distances in a reasonable time. I can understand that people like to ride faster and when I’m riding on my own I usually ride at over 20 MPH most of the time, but that’s when I’m training. So as Jim suggests why not do the training ride on Saturday with a like minded group or arrange a separate training ride for Sunday if a group of people want to do that.
Clearly the long run isn’t currently working as several people have stated on this forum that they want to ride the long run but it’s too fast. If I were riding the long run I would make a point of reducing the speed so that the others can join in, it’s as simple as that. So in conclusion we don’t need an official 3rd club run because a long fast ride is not a club run, it’s a training ride.
Dave 🙂JimDuffyParticipant6 September 2012 at 02:42Post count: 961
I am hoping to attend, as a relatively new member, I would like to see what is discussed.
On the whole club run debate, when I joined in May, I was completely new to cycling clubs, with no idea if my level of fitness would be good enough, not wishing to slow anyone down and not knowing anything about the politics that surround the club runs. I started with the short runs, who were happy to plod along at 15mph and this was ideal for me at the time and it was clear that WVCC catered for all levels, however, as my fitness got stronger, i wanted to go faster, the natural progression was to the long run, which I knew at the time was further and faster. My first ride was a bit of a struggle, but I like to think I soon got into it (others may disagree 😆 ). Again, I found WVCC catering for the needs of different levels and abilities. I do also think that Craig’s ride would be of interest to me now and again given the choice.
So in summary, In my humble opinion, I am with John on this, the long run in its current format, works for me and the people who are on it & if it ain’t broke….., so why not trial another run (going back to the politics again, is there a massive problem with this?), The club runs are well attended and people can then choose on a Sunday morning if they would like short and social, long and social or long and quick.
I think the moral of the story is, you can cater for some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time!!!!!TonyBParticipant6 September 2012 at 10:40Post count: 56
Never posted on here before in almost 2 years and I’ve been reading previous comments with interest, so I thought I’d try and come in from a different angle.
It’s never easy satisfying everybody’s needs on a club run plus it’s seems to me that there are different interpretations of what the long run is about (Myself personally I always thought it was a distance defined by the team leader of the day or a route suggested by a member (65-90miles) and speed usually defined by conditions on the day (Wet/Dry) and riders present.
I agree with Craig that the present circumstances don’t meet his needs! (“Hi Craig” by the way not seen you in ages!) But I also agree with John that doing 14-15mph would not be my favoured speed. In the past 6 months there have been normally a hard core of 7-12 riders who go on the long run and take to an average speed of about 18-20mph and do intermediate sprints up hills and race to designated points along the route without losing any back markers, so to me there is a demand for this type of ride because of the consistency of numbers each week, but this doesn’t solve Craig’s and Co’s issue.
Personally I think a third run is not a bad idea! But as and when numbers are abit thin on the ground we would start to run into problems. I can remember a few months ago when just Alan (short run normally), a lad from Knutsford (new member) and myself (long/fast run normally) turned up one wet Sunday, so personally I feel we need to consolidate what we already have but maybe tweak it abit.
Below is a list of suggestions from a different angle or as some people would say the one’s outside the penalty box
(feel free to add to them and don’t take them too serious!)
1) Outward journey slow 14/15mph – Homeward journey fast 18/20mph
2) Alternate Sundays – whole journey fast week/ whole journey slow week
3) Staggered start where slow riders start 15mins ahead, then fast riders catch them up and then
ride at slow pace towards cafe/home..
See you in another two years!JimWParticipant6 September 2012 at 14:30Post count: 328
Last Sunday, I did 75 miles at 15.2mph [which included the 1st 30 miles with the short run] for the last 45 miles I was on my own!
There are a lot of experienced people who no longer come out with the club because the runs are too fast…what a shame!
I suggest that those with excess energy to burn, train during the winter and race during the summer [thats novel!] you can dress it up how you like,, a club run is a CLUB RUN and not a training ride. nuff said
JPaulParticipant6 September 2012 at 14:52Post count: 391
i would be happy to put forward the idea of a 3rd run at the agm? and put forward everyone’s views? i my self in the past have wanted a long run but at a slower pace due to the week of hard training in the bag, but still want a few miles at a leisurely pace, hills would still be taken in the same manner, climb at your own speed regroup at the top, just the same with descents some people arent as confident as others (got sense). if you cant make the agm post your idea’s i will jot them down and present them at the agm. this would also be a good stepping stone for those who would like to progress to the long run but dont know if they can go the extra distance. i say a good idea as i have in the past. and if there arent enough attendees on a morning at the legion you cut out the 3rd run and have a short and a long. but the third run will thin out groups making things flow slightly better in all 3 as you wont have people who have gone to the short run who would usually go on the long, shooting off up the hills way off and vise versa. i believe the skill and level of riding would be more balanced in each. but let me know any views, and i will put both sides across, im sure a trial period wont harm anyone and if craig is stepping up to lead the run, there is no struggle for a run leader.nofearParticipant6 September 2012 at 20:09Post count: 604
Let’s just go the whole hog and put numbers on everybody’s backs and time them in and out and call it a sportif (not a race)!
“if it aint broken” …….. the club is 50 years old and for 50 years we have had a long and a short club run and both have been at a club run pace and not at 20mph. All this talk of riding through and off and sprinting for primes sounds to me like people are trying to emulate their Tour De France heroes. Maybe the hard core few that ride the long runs regularly like doing this but as we have seen from the comments of several other members, these members feel excluded because they either can’t or don’t want to ride at such a high pace and maybe that is why the numbers on the long run tend to be lower than the numbers on the short run.
As I said earlier by all means organize a long fast bike ride if that is what people want as it’s a free country, but don’t call it a club run. A long club run should be ridden at a reasonable pace so people who want to go a on a long sociable ride can do so without fear of getting dropped or having to turn themselves inside out for several hours just to hang on.
I’ve been writing race reports most weekends for this whole season just to try and encourage people to try out racing as this is the best place to truly ride at a fast pace and to enjoy the cut and thrust of TRUE competition. You also get to meet many people from other clubs and to make life long friends, as I have cycling friends all over the country that I have known for thirty odd years.
Track racing, road racing, time trialling, circuit racing, cyclo-cross, mountain biking, tandem racing, tricycle racing, etc are all great fun and will get you seriously fit and you can try them all or specialise in the ones that you like, but until you try them you won’t know what you’re missing. The variety available is one of the great benefits of cycling when compared to other sports, but it’s important that you don’t mix these different things up as it’s a recipe for disaster. I race regularly and I train regularly, but I don’t go on club runs to race or train. The only real exception is Llanberis and guess what …. that’s a training weekend. I’m not saying that the occasional burn up on a hill or the odd sprint shouldn’t happen, as they always have done so and they can be good fun occasionally, but they shouldn’t become they norm as you will quickly alienate a lot of people if it happens too often.
As usual I’ve said too much but it’s food for thought.
DaveAdyJappKeymaster6 September 2012 at 20:13Post count: 824
Have just moved this ’emotive’ topic from the Club News section to Members Only, so that the discussion remains ‘healthy’ within the club, without giving anyone outside of the club an idea that we’re constantly debating the issue.
Cycling is more popular than ever, so it’s the responsibility of all club members, not just elected leaders and willing volunteers, to ensure that WVCC is promoted well to non-members as well.
Thanks.PaulParticipant6 September 2012 at 20:31Post count: 391
totally agree with what dave is saying in so many ways, however i dont think the long run will change to bring there average speeds come down a lot but maybe this is something that the leader and with co-operation of the group could happen and thus meaning that there would be no need for a 3rd run? however im still happy to argue for a 3rd run as it may be tht we could have a training ride on a sunday or something along the lines of, either way i will be present at the agm. 🙂
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